Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani discussed his philosophy of what freedom means in a democracy yesterday at a forum on urban crime, and his remarks left a civil libertarian puzzled and worried.
The Mayor, a former United States Attorney in Manhattan, said New Yorkers were inclined to "see only the oppressive side of authority."
"What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be," he said at the forum, sponsored by The New York Post. "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."
Asked later about his remarks, Mr. Giuliani said governmental authorities in American society had fallen into disrepute in the last 30 years. He said anarchy would result if everyone were allowed to behave exactly as he wanted and cited Oliver Wendell Holmes's adage that freedom of expression does not include shouting 'Fire!' in a crowded theater.
Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said he was "floored" by the Mayor's definition.
"Order is an element of freedom," Mr. Siegel said. "But to put the emphasis on order rather than on a just and fair society is inverting the meaning and significance of freedom."
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The Nazis, Fascists and Communists were political parties before they became enemies of liberty and mass murderers.
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